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	<title>The Reluctant Ordained &#187; Kingdom</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/tag/kingdom/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk</link>
	<description>Alternativly:  The Itinerant Gardener !!</description>
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		<title>The Kingdom is like&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/the-kingdom-is-like/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/the-kingdom-is-like/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA['Sermon' like material]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible bits]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[heaven]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Matthew ch13]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/?p=1074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apologies for being so last week!  based on Matt. ch.13 So I asked, rather foolishly, what happened at 4.30am.  Blank looks.  And it happens every morning, but perhaps not always that early. &#8230; &#8216;sunrise?&#8217; &#8230;  Yes! And what will happen tonight at about 10pm? &#8230; &#8216;sunset?&#8217; (they&#8217;re catching on!) Is that right says I? (they nod) Are you sure? (they nod, but one does not)  No! tis the other way round! It is, says I, thanks be to God for Galileo, Copernicus and the like.  The poor old Catholic church took until 1990 to say it really didn&#8217;t handle the Galileo situation very well.  He didn&#8217;t quite lose his head, but was almost (apparently) guilty of blasphemy.  For observing the movements of the sun and the other stars, (or lack of!) So we know the Earth goes round the sun, and it does not rise, but just appears to because we are stood still.  How fast would we need to run to keep up with the sun? Another question, since we are doing so well&#8230;  So if the earth is not at the centre, or indeed flat, where then is heaven? &#8230; Above the sky? That would have been the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-1075" title="seed and tree" src="http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/seed-and-tree.jpg" alt="" width="191" height="194" />Apologies for being so last week!  based on <a title="Matt Ch. 13" href="http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=178847827">Matt. ch.13</a></p>
<p>So I asked, rather foolishly, what happened at 4.30am.  Blank looks.  And it happens every morning, but perhaps not always that early.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8216;sunrise?&#8217; &#8230;  Yes!</p>
<p>And what will happen tonight at about 10pm?</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8216;sunset?&#8217; (they&#8217;re catching on!)</p>
<p>Is that right says I?</p>
<p>(they nod)</p>
<p>Are you sure?</p>
<p>(they nod, but one does not)  No! tis the other way round!</p>
<p>It is, says I, thanks be to God for Galileo, Copernicus and the like.  The poor old Catholic church took until 1990 to say it really didn&#8217;t handle the Galileo situation very well.  He didn&#8217;t quite lose his head, but was almost (apparently) guilty of blasphemy.  For observing the movements of the sun and the other stars, (or lack of!)</p>
<p>So we know the Earth goes round the sun, and it does not rise, but just appears to because we are stood still.  How fast would we need to run to keep up with the sun?</p>
<p>Another question, since we are doing so well&#8230;  So if the earth is not at the centre, or indeed flat, where then is heaven?</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>Above the sky?</p>
<p>That would have been the old answer, when people believed in the three tier universe, when everything revolved around the earth, Heavens above! Earth beneath, Hell below.  Easy to fall off into hell, much harder to get to heaven through the sky.</p>
<p>Heaven was seen as a place wholly other, away from this world, not attainable in any real sense.</p>
<p>And Yet&#8230;  The parables of the Kingdom of which Jesus spoke in this Gospel, speak not of a heaven far away and removed, untouchable, un-knowable, but of a heaven close at hand.</p>
<p>The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed.  You can watch the tree grow, reach out and touch it, see birds nesting in its branches.  It is like yeast to leaven the flour, something to get your hands into, to feel, smell and eventually taste, something which evokes all the senses.  It is like a precious pearl or a great treasure, something to hold close and guard, not to be divorced from.  It is like a net cast over the water to gather fish.  It feeds and nourishes and is close at hand, just out of view.  We see as if through a glass darkly.  The kingdom is not aloof, far off, unattainable, despite what centuries of theologians might have argued.  With the insight of observers of the world such as Galileo we can see that Jesus had it understood from the beginning, if only we had listened.  Do you understand this?  Says Jesus.  Yes, they say, whist shaking their heads.</p>
<p><a title="The idea of heaven far away and later" href="http://unfoldinglight.net/?p=822">This poem is a fitting way to end such observations.</a></p>
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		<title>to recover the celtic</title>
		<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/to-recover-the-celtic/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/to-recover-the-celtic/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>stubiedoo</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Books]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Alastair McIntosh]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[celtic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[community]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[eco]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spirituality]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/?p=570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have avoided that word for a long time, it has almost become a nothing word to some, speaking of fanciful longings and notions without any depth or heart or soul. &#8216;Celtic Christianity never really existed&#8217; some say, and to an extent I would agree. The trouble is, it goes deeper than this. &#8220;And Celtic Spirituality is only the heart ruling the head&#8221; They might go on to say. When I hear some poetry and music quoted as being &#8216;celtic&#8217; or of celtic influence I always wonder who was the influence to these quaint ditties, some long forgotten saint speaking from beyond the grave perhaps? Reading Alastair&#8217;s book Soil and Soul is illuminating because for once he usurps the general convention of, is there, isn&#8217;t there, celtic arguments and says this: &#8220;The issue, I think, is not whether Celtic spirituality ever existed, but the fact that a living spirituality connecting soil, soul and society manifestly can and does exist. This is community in that word&#8217;s most holistic sense. &#8230; Celticity therefore takes on a meaning that can be bigger than ethnographic and linguistic definitions alone: it becomes code for reconnection with human community, with the natural world and with God. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have avoided that word for a long time, it has almost become a nothing word to some, speaking of fanciful longings and notions without any depth or heart or soul.  &#8216;Celtic Christianity never really existed&#8217; some say, and to an extent I would agree.  The trouble is, it goes deeper than this.  &#8220;And Celtic Spirituality is only the heart ruling the head&#8221; They might go on to say.  When I hear some poetry and music quoted as being &#8216;celtic&#8217; or of celtic influence I always wonder who was the influence to these quaint ditties, some long forgotten saint speaking from beyond the grave perhaps?</p>
<p>Reading Alastair&#8217;s book Soil and Soul is illuminating because for once he usurps the general convention of, is there, isn&#8217;t there, celtic arguments and says this:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The issue, I think, is not whether Celtic spirituality ever existed, but the fact that a living spirituality connecting soil, soul and society manifestly can and does exist.  This is community in that word&#8217;s most holistic sense. &#8230; Celticity therefore takes on a meaning that can be bigger than ethnographic and linguistic definitions alone: it becomes code for reconnection with human community, with the natural world and with God.  It expresses what I call a &#8216;metaculture&#8217;: a connection at a level of the soul that goes deeper than superficial cultural differences; a connection simply by virtue of our underlying humanity.  Such a bedrock of commonality is desperately needed in today&#8217;s fragmented world.  It arises not from globalisation as a business concept, but from the fact of being &#8216;one world&#8217; &#8220;</p></blockquote>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Whose Eyes? &#8211; Civic Service</title>
		<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/whose-eyes-civic-service/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/whose-eyes-civic-service/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>stubiedoo</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA['Sermon' like material]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Greenfield]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Belief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[civic service]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[community]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dawkins]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mayor]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sermon]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/?p=495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was never really sure about the annual Civic Service &#8211; that was until this year.  It was &#8211; wait for it &#8211; actually quite good fun, well the preparation was anyway!! My talk, titled:  &#8216;Whose Eyes?&#8217;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was never really sure about the annual Civic Service &#8211; that was until this year.  It was &#8211; wait for it &#8211; actually quite good fun, well the preparation was anyway!!</p>
<p><a title="Whose Eyes?" href="http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/whose-eyes/">My talk, titled:  &#8216;Whose Eyes?&#8217;</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>The Unfinished Story</title>
		<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/the-unfinished-story/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/the-unfinished-story/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 13:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>stubiedoo</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA['Sermon' like material]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Film]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[About a Boy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[community]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Easter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[eucharist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lent]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Resurrection]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Shawshank Redemption]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/?p=444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[About a Boy finally finishes, or not, as the title suggests&#8230; My Easter reflections on the final scene of the film.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About a Boy finally finishes, or not, as the title suggests&#8230;</p>
<p><a title="Easter About a Boy" href="http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/writing-and-talks/the-unfinished-story/">My Easter reflections on the final scene of the film.</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>On the sofa with Will Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/on-the-sofa-with-will-freeman/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/on-the-sofa-with-will-freeman/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>stubiedoo</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA['Sermon' like material]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[About a Boy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Film]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lent]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[liturgy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[passiontide]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/?p=431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After writing this for Passion Sunday, during the service I noticed that all the collects, prayerlets and general liturgical material for Passiontide was about getting closer to Jesus. Well, I had the distinct opposite impression from the readings, that at this point, Jesus is turning his face more towards the cross and the Disciples are starting to be left behind, feeling perhaps uncertain of the future&#8230;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After writing <a title="Passion Sunday" href="http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/writing-and-talks/on-the-sofa-with-will-freeman/" target="_self">this for Passion Sunday</a>, during the service I noticed that all the collects, prayerlets and general liturgical material for Passiontide was about getting closer to Jesus.  Well, I had the distinct opposite impression from the readings, that at this point, Jesus is turning his face more towards the cross and the Disciples are starting to be left behind, feeling perhaps uncertain of the future&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>Umeed Partnership</title>
		<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/umeed-partnership/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/umeed-partnership/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>stubiedoo</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Umeed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Facebook]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[justice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pakistan]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wales]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/?p=424</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve undertaken the &#8216;small task&#8217; of looking after the website of a local charity, the Umeed Partnership.  I have had links with some of those involved from days in Bangor.  As well as the website, Umeed now has a Facebook page.  Umeed provides opportunities for disadvantaged women and children in Pakistan.  You can help by spreading the word and becoming a fan on Facebook or keeping up with the news on the website.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve undertaken the &#8216;small task&#8217; of looking after the website of a local charity, the <a title="Umeed Partnership" href="http://www.umeedpartnership.org.uk" target="_self">Umeed Partnership</a>.  I have had links with some of those involved from days in Bangor.  As well as the website, Umeed now has a <a title="Umeed on Facebook" href="http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Umeed-Partnership/62962781330?ref=nf" target="_self">Facebook page</a>.  Umeed provides opportunities for disadvantaged women and children in Pakistan.  You can help by spreading the word and becoming a fan on Facebook or keeping up with the news on the website.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Politely Protesting</title>
		<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/politely-protesting/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/politely-protesting/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>stubiedoo</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Green living]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[the occasionals]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climate change]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[death]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[EON]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[justice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[peace]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[protest]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/?p=406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The police were concerned that more than 500 protestors at a time might prove to be a &#8216;health and safety issue&#8217; So we very politely and reverently laid the coffins of our climate at the feet of EON, who are planning a new Coal-Fired Power station, whilst committing to keep campaigning towards the Copenhagen meeting in December when we will find out if Britain has the balls to tackle climate issues properly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The police were concerned that more than 500 protestors at a time might prove to be a &#8216;health and safety issue&#8217;</p>
<p>So we very politely and reverently laid the coffins of our climate at the feet of EON, who are planning a new Coal-Fired Power station, whilst committing to keep campaigning towards the Copenhagen meeting in December when we will find out if Britain has the balls to tackle climate issues properly.</p>
<p><object classid="clsid:02bf25d5-8c17-4b23-bc80-d3488abddc6b" width="366" height="240" codebase="http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab#version=6,0,2,0"><param name="src" value="http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/coventry.mov" /><embed type="video/quicktime" width="366" height="240" src="http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/coventry.mov" autoplay="false"></embed></object></p>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Cycling &#8216;n&#8217; CME</title>
		<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/cycling-n-cme/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/cycling-n-cme/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>stubiedoo</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[cycling]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[signs]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/cycling-n-cme/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I Got the route correct this time!! Cycling as I was to Mold for CME, expecting great things on Mark&#8217;s Gospel, (and we got them) Dick France, a former principle of Wycliffe hall, writer etc was really quite engaging, and without all the new fangled toys that often appear at these days!! He was particularly interesting on &#8216;The Kingdom of God&#8217; which, he bemoans, is so often shortened to &#8216;The Kingdom&#8217; or even &#8216;Kingdom &#8230; &#8216;  Suggesting that &#8216;The Kingdom&#8217; in the current understanding of the phrase relates to a place, but the word derives from its old usage that of kingship or reign.  He was challenged with a question on charismatic &#8216;signs and wonders&#8217; &#8216;of The Kingdom&#8217; and if there were not to be located in someplace how could we see them etc.  I found this very strange, clearly he did too as he stressed his usage of the phrase Kingdom of God, rather than its shortening and actually prefering &#8216;Kingship of God&#8217; as it doesn&#8217;t refer to a place. If I had been quick enough, and I guess that is why I like to cycle home &#8211; time to think &#8211; I might have said that the question [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I Got the route correct this time!! Cycling as I was to Mold for CME, expecting great things on Mark&#8217;s Gospel, (and we got them) Dick France, a former principle of Wycliffe hall, writer etc was really quite engaging, and without all the new fangled toys that often appear at these days!!</p>
<p>He was particularly interesting on &#8216;The Kingdom of God&#8217; which, he bemoans, is so often shortened to &#8216;The Kingdom&#8217; or even &#8216;Kingdom &#8230; &#8216;  Suggesting that &#8216;The Kingdom&#8217; in the current understanding of the phrase relates to a place, but the word derives from its old usage that of kingship or reign.  He was challenged with a question on charismatic &#8216;signs and wonders&#8217; &#8216;of The Kingdom&#8217; and if there were not to be located in someplace how could we see them etc.  I found this very strange, clearly he did too as he stressed his usage of the phrase Kingdom of God, rather than its shortening and actually prefering &#8216;Kingship of God&#8217; as it doesn&#8217;t refer to a place.</p>
<p>If I had been quick enough, and I guess that is why I like to cycle home &#8211; time to think &#8211; I might have said that the question where is the Kingdom, ie signs and wonders is the wrong question.  Trying to locate &#8216;The Kingdom&#8217; or signs of it with where questions kind of misses the point I feel.  I have not really ever thought of  &#8216;The Kingdom of God&#8217; as a &#8216;where&#8217;, but a &#8216;what&#8217;.  It boils down to the same as &#8216;Where&#8217;, or &#8216;What&#8217; is &#8216;God&#8217; Dick suggested that if you must shorten the phrase then to shorten it the other way, i.e. God, rather than kingdom.</p>
<p>When you start asking &#8216;What is God?&#8217; rather than &#8216;Where is God?&#8217; or &#8216;What are the signs of the Kingdom <em>of God</em>&#8216; you get a far different answer.   Start taking a closer interest in what is around you rather than searching out the great lightning bolts.  You can then start to locate God in everything from the greatest marvel of creation to the simple hug shared between friends.</p>
<p>Oscar Wilde said:</p>
<p>&#8220;It is only shallow people who do not judge by appearances.</p>
<p>The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible.&#8221;</p>
<p>Therefore we just have to open our eyes and see&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Monday (again)</title>
		<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/monday-again/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/monday-again/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>stubiedoo</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[St Mike's]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[R.S. Thomas]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reluctantordinand.co.uk/?p=49</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They come round so quickly don&#8217;t they! Hopefully not as quick as R. S. Thomas sees the kingdom coming in this poem It&#8217;s a long way off, but inside it There are quite different things going on: Festivals at which the poor man Is king and the consumptive is Healed: mirrors in which the blind look At themselves and love looks at them Back: and industry is for mending The bent bones and the minds fractured By life. It&#8217;s a long way off, but to get There takes no time and admission, Is free, if you will purge yourself Of desire and present yourself with Your need only and the simple offering Of your faith, green as a leaf]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They come round so quickly don&#8217;t they!</p>
<p>Hopefully not as quick as R. S. Thomas sees the kingdom coming in this poem</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a long way off, but inside it<br />
There are quite different things going on:<br />
Festivals at which the poor man<br />
Is king and the consumptive is<br />
Healed: mirrors in which the blind look<br />
At themselves and love looks at them<br />
Back: and industry is for mending<br />
The bent bones and the minds fractured<br />
By life. It&#8217;s a long way off, but to get<br />
There takes no time and admission,<br />
Is free, if you will purge yourself<br />
Of desire and present yourself with<br />
Your need only and the simple offering<br />
Of your faith, green as a leaf</p>
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		<title>Is it just me or&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/is-it-just-me-or/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reluctantordinand.co.uk/is-it-just-me-or/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2005 21:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>stubiedoo</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[St Mike's]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[community]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[prayer]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reluctantordinand.co.uk/?p=32</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In church, at intercessions. Let us pray etc&#8230; We pray for our church (followed by a list of events going on that week) after each event, (from one or two in the congregation): Yes Lord, oh yes Jesus. Specific prayers for the alpha course and the topic coming up response: Yes Lord, oh yes Jesus. or similar Prayers for the bishop, the Anglican cycle prayers for other countries etc Silence prayers for peace workers or some other group, I forget now Silence Prayers for the community and people in the area Silence Prayers for the event at CIA followed by something about touching peoples hearts with the holy spirit Yes Lord, oh yes Jesus. Thank you Lord etc Prayers for the sick etc Silence. Is it just me or is there a pattern here? This was only one or perhaps two individuals, but it was clear where they were coming from. The ecstatic charismatic orgasmic style of prayer response has no place for me in worship, but that I could put up with had it not been for the complete absence of relation to the world outside the church and the Christian community. All too often it seems that it [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In church, at intercessions.</p>
<p>Let us pray etc&#8230;</p>
<p>We pray for our church (followed by a list of events going on that week)</p>
<p>after each event, (from one or two in the congregation): Yes Lord, oh yes Jesus.</p>
<p>Specific prayers for the alpha course and the topic coming up<br />
response: Yes Lord, oh yes Jesus. or similar</p>
<p>Prayers for the bishop, the Anglican cycle prayers for other countries etc</p>
<p>Silence</p>
<p>prayers for peace workers or some other group, I forget now</p>
<p>Silence</p>
<p>Prayers for the community and people in the area</p>
<p>Silence</p>
<p>Prayers for the event at CIA followed by something about touching peoples hearts with the holy spirit</p>
<p>Yes Lord, oh yes Jesus. Thank you Lord etc</p>
<p>Prayers for the sick etc</p>
<p>Silence.</p>
<p>Is it just me or is there a pattern here?</p>
<p>This was only one or perhaps two individuals, but it was clear where they were coming from.<br />
The ecstatic charismatic orgasmic style of prayer response has no place for me in worship, but that I could put up with had it not been for the complete absence of relation to the world outside the church and the Christian community. All too often it seems that it comes down to a choice between lively charismatic worship, self-centred and introverted worrying about the soul of those in the church and the lack of morality without or boring &#8216;catholic&#8217; worship, but with a church involved in the community and building the kingdom of God on earth.</p>
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